Guest Lecturer: Kristin Madden

Guest Lecture Given September 13th, 2005

Kristin Madden (website) agreed to be a guest lecturer here at the Campus. Her lecture was over "Healing the Fractured Spirit: The Shamanic Practice of Power and Soul Retrieval."

Ms. Madden was born into a shamanic family and was taught by her grandparents as well as her mother. Her mother is the "deathwalker" for her family and taught Kristin about communicating with spirits, although it appears as though Kristin did not need much instruction.

Her entire life has involved healing and shamanism in one form or another. She has not only been involved with traditional shamanism, including Saami, Tibetan, Native American and Celtic, but has also studied druidry with the Order of Bards, Ovates, and Druids, eventually becoming a tutor for them. She has also been involved with Wiccan covens and a shamanic healing circle in the area she lives in. Kristin incorporates hypnosis, kinesiology, neuro-liniguistic programming, yoga, pranayama, homeopathy, flower essences, Reiki and other forms of energy work into her healings.

Her books are very easy to follow and are a great benefit to both the novice and the old-timer. Below is a list of her books that you should order.

A list of her resources and recommended reading material is located after the transcript. She also was kind enough to include a handout with the reading list and several meditations and exercises. You can download the handout here (.pdf format).

KristinM: Well, I'll certainly share my experience and I encourage you all to jump in with questions. Chats are an interesting format

KristinM: Athrawon, do you have a specific procedure for these or should I just leap right in?

Athrawon: Well... everyone, this is Kristin... and you can just jump right in Ms. Madden and do your wonderful thing

KristinM: Right on! And I expect to be a typo queen myself so no worries

Athrawon: I will try to control any interruptions until question and answer time

nazcatati: cool.. I will keep quiet until we can raise our hands for questions..

EmPhoenix: *zips the lip...er....fingers*

KristinM: Great! Let me just ask first if there is anyone present that really doesn't have a basic understanding of shamanism?

KristinM: Actually, let me not put you on the spot and we'll just talk about that first

nazcatati: oh okay.. I am total beginner.. but grasp very quickly

KristinM: LOL there's a chat for you. I should have typed that last one faster. But thanks for being so open Nazcatati

nazcatati: that is cool... I rather be upfront... that there is no misunderstanding.. and love putting myself on the spot...so where is the spot again..

KristinM: Shamanism is possibly the oldest spiritual tradition on earth. It was the foundation for nearly all religions and remains a part of many spiritual paths and religions today, though sometimes in very subtle forms'

KristinM: Mircea Eliade wrote what has been considered by many to be the "Bible" of shamanism, though it is controversial: Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy

KristinM: This is a great overview of shamanic traditions around the world. I would also recommend Barbara Tedlock's Woman in the Shaman's Body for a different perspective on many of his interpretations though

KristinM: So between Eliade and Michael Harner (Foundation for Shamanic Studies)(website), the prevailing point that differentiates shamanism from other trance/ecstatic paths is the shamanic journey

KristinM: In this journey, the free soul travels through this world (where time and space are elastic in shamanic states of consciousness) and the other worlds in search of wisdom, power, healing, etc

KristinM: Ah here come the typos

KristinM: Anyway, this differentiation of the soul is where we start to look at soul fragmentation and retrieval

ShadyLady: lol

KristinM: Various cultures have their own unique models of the soul. An Aztec woman I have worked with sees a 7-part division of the soul.

KristinM: My Sami ancestors and other work with a 2-part model, which suits me just fine because it's not nearly as complex LOL

KristinM: In this model, which is probably familiar in different terminology to many 0of you, sees a body soul and a free soul. I've been told that this is also similar to the Egyptian model. Does anyone here work with a different perspective?

Athrawon: I am familiar with three aspects of the soul.. the body, the mind, and the free soul

ShadyLady: I have worked with the Celtic view recently....the Fetch, the Talker and the God Self

ShadyLady: also mental, physical, and spiritual parts

nazcatati: just Juno as my higher self

Shamanka: I am familiar with the 7 and 9 part soul retrieval

KristinM: Interesting! I would love to hear more about those models perhaps in email later on! I just love to explore the ways that we perceive and understand all of this and how it varies. In the 2-part soul, the body soul is that energy that incarnates when we do.

KristinM: This body soul creates and maintains the physical body and remains locked to the body as long as it loves.

KristinM: Well, maybe but I meant to say as long as it lives

EmPhoenix: lol

Shamanka: teehee

ShadyLady: lol

KristinM: The free soul is the dreaming body, the journeying body...it's that which is free to travel the worlds

KristinM: At death, another of my favorite topics, these two souls merge

KristinM: Now either of these (or both) may be injured as the result of trauma.

KristinM: But it's not just trauma that can fragment the soul and cause us to lose power.

KristinM: Embarrassments, frustrations, the jerk that cut you off in traffic when you were having the worst possible day, losing a job, losing a lover

KristinM: All of these can cause fragmentation on a less severe level.

KristinM: Now traditionally, souls and power are often lost through theft. Many cultures believe that the dead may take a soul or a part of one for various reasons. I haven't found that to be at all common in my experience.

KristinM: But theft does occur, both conscious theft and unconscious. And you might consider if there is a possibility that you have inadvertently stolen someone's power

Shamanka: Aho

KristinM: It's not something we often consider (wonder why) and it can be a surprise when you discover you're holding a piece of someone's power

KristinM: It's a bit embarrassing really. "Oh hi there, sorry but I believe this is yours. I forgot I had it"

nazcatati: are you referring to as psychic vampirism

KristinM: Yes it very often manifests that way!

KristinM: I've seen it most commonly in relationships between lovers and with parents that have been beaten down by life and so admire the vitality and light of a child that they unknowingly take some of that strength

nazcatati: I was introduce by a friend but when I tried it I ended targeting my pet Dalmatian and she didn't speak to me for a week.. after that.. didn't mess with it... too scary especially with no guide...

KristinM: LOL Ah our "pets" are so on to us and often they act as guides for us.
KristinM: And probably just as often, I see people just give up their power

KristinM: They want to be loved or acceted so much or they are too afraid to prevent theft that they allow it to happen

KristinM: make that accepted

Athrawon: LOL.. we are all good at reading typos

KristinM: And one more way I see people fragmenting and losing power, more and more commonly, is through a scattering of their energy

KristinM: We are soooo overscheduled and have those incredible to-do lists that our focus, our wholeness can slip away in that

KristinM: Not that any of us have to much on our plates, I'll bet!

Shamanka: lol

nazcatati: define "wholeness slipping away" or an example so I can better understand the situation

ShadyLady: *whistles*

nazcatati: spacing out???

EmPhoenix: It's very difficult to integrate all the different aspects of my life....sometimes I feel like I have to be 15 different people at any given time

Shamanka: not nearly enough lol

KristinM: It's almost like a garden hose, which is an analogy I often use with parents. When we get too scattered, holes show up in the hose and the water is allowed to leak out.

KristinM: Yes, it can be seen as a spacing out or as a serious desire to have several clones

EmPhoenix: lol

KristinM: I once saw a coffee mug that said "God put me on this planet to accomplish a certain number of things. I'm so far behind I'll never die" or something like that

KristinM: It's very fitting for many people

Shamanka: yes

nazcatati: okay.. cause I space out a lot, so that will mean I am scattering my energy all the time...

ShadyLady: or like a piece of pie....you take one piece for work, one piece for family stuff, one piece for this, one for that and soon the whole pie is now just a few pieces and crumbs

KristinM: Absolutely!!! The process of fragmentation can impact a person on all levels of being

KristinM: Sometimes a person feels spaced out or disassociated from life

RavenFea has entered the room.

KristinM: Hi RavenFea!

RavenFea: Hi there. Sorry I am late

Shamanka: pull up a chair

ShadyLady: welcome Raven

KristinM: We're glad you made it

RavenFea: lol

RavenFea: had a hard time getting in here

KristinM: Often a feeling of being out of control or being a victim gives us clues to fragmentation

KristinM: Depression, unhealthy life patterns, quick and overly emotional reactions can be symptoms

KristinM: But more subtle are the injuries, illnesses, and other manifestations such as learning disabilities,

Shamanka: People who have lost soul aspects may suffer chronic illnesses in childhood as a result of this reduced life force. One example of soul fragmenting occurs because of childhood sexual abuse. Here, parts of the soul literally leave because the event is too painful. You agree?

KristinM: and conditions such as ADD and ADHD. Now I'm not saying that those are always or even most of the time simply linked to fragmentation but they can be clues to the possibility

RavenFea: yes

KristinM: Without question!

ShadyLady: agreed Shamanka

KristinM: And that's exactly what happens. The life force that flows through a whole person is reduced with fragmentation

KristinM: The fragmented spirit no longer has access to all that vitality and power. They often lose the ability to really create the lives they want

nazcatati: so after going thru all that are we able to retrieve or invite the soul back...

KristinM: Nope, you're screwed

KristinM: Sorry couldn't resist!!!

EmPhoenix: lol

RavenFea: lol

Athrawon: LOL

JennyDavid: lol

nazcatati: lol.. that evil..

twolf44: lol

KristinM: You most certainly can and a lot of it can be done on your own

Shamanka: teehee

IMBaked has entered the room.

IMBaked: Hello everyone

KristinM: I've heard it said that you must have a shamanic healer to bring back fragments. And I have found this to be very true in certain cases

KristinM: Hi IMBaked

Shamanka: welcome pull up a chair

KristinM: Cases where the fragmentation is extreme and there isn't much of a power base to return fragments to

KristinM: Also when you're going after the real biggies

Shamanka: yes

EmPhoenix: biggies?

nazcatati: so basically the stuff you can't resolve on your own...

KristinM: Oh yeah, serious fragments that resulted from serious trauma

nazcatati: that is when you will need a healer...

KristinM: Indeed!

twolf44: Most people end up in psychiatric care in such a case. Can Shamanic and psychiatric techniques be used in concert?

KristinM: Now let's be clear about fragmentation first. It's not necessarily a bad thing

KristinM: Sorry twowolf44, I was typing when your post came up.

twolf44: np

KristinM: Yes yes yes is the short answer

twolf44: k

Shamanka: It depends on the healer and the client doesn't it?

KristinM: I work fairly frequently with a local psychotherapist. I know more and more psychologists that are using shamanic techniques

KristinM: It certainly does depend on the healer and client, that is true

Shamanka: Soul fragments rarely can return without assistance. A time-honored, and proven, method is Shamanic Soul Retrieval. Although shamanic Soul Retrieval has benefited many, and is still appropriate for certain people, we have experienced that the shamanic method is much slower and can be quite uncomfortable. In this method, you undergo a linear process--a shamanic journey--and then, over time, the psychological and emotional int

Shamanka: Once the soul retrieval is done, the client may be left to go through the rigors of soul integration alone.

Shamanka: True?

KristinM: But for those people that are open to alternate therapies and need to continue seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist this can be a wonderful complement

Shamanka: yes

KristinM: Ah Shamanka, you hit on one of my soapboxes

KristinM: Far too often this is true

KristinM: A support system can be essential to the success of the process

nazcatati: Okay.. I can see when you the soul begins to become fragmented.. but to someone who is not shamanic... how will you know that you already have it back.. or there is no buts about it

nazcatati: you have to go through the shamanic journey... to retrieve it..

KristinM: Actually, there are other ways to begin to recover power and build the base for a healer (or yourself) to bring back more emotionally charged fragments

KristinM: But lets' go back for a moment. It's important to remember that fragmentation is a self-defense mechanism

Shamanka: Right

KristinM: It serves the spirit in the short term by limiting access to painful experiences

Shamanka: very true

KristinM: This saves the core being and gives us time to handle those experiences when we are ready

Kaisar has entered the room.

nazcatati: like the painful events that are forgotten as a child so the child will survive or be able to endure that time frame...

EmPhoenix: So one who is retrieving an emotionally charged part of the soul would have to re-experience the occurrence?

KristinM: Exactly

Shamanka: Welcome kaisar pull up a chair

nazcatati: and only resurface as an adult when it thinks it can handle it better

Kaisar: geeze, I hope someone took notes I can copy...

Athrawon: I am keeping a log

KristinM: Hi Kaisar! Yes, a re-experiencing is part of the process

nazcatati: writing them down... but I was told they are going to post the chat
KristinM: Often memories resurface in the process

KristinM: And this is one reason why the base of power is sooo important as is the support system

EmPhoenix: and so that would be a good reason to have an experienced healer to help...

nazcatati: and if you overcome them and resolve what happen.. does that mean you get a piece back or become less fragmented

nazcatati: sorry.. keep thinking of defragmentation as in a computer...

Shamanka: lol

KristinM: If you do indeed reintegrate and handle the experiences, you've got that part back

Shamanka: yes

KristinM: But if you have these fragments returned before you are ready, they can cause greater fragmentation

Sentience has entered the room.

KristinM: And this is something that an experienced healer can help with. Hi Sentience!

IMBaked: Hi Sent

Sentience: greetings

Sentience: hi baked

KristinM: An experienced healer works closely with spirit guides to determine what the process needs to be

Shamanka: Hi and welcome pull up a chair

EmPhoenix: okay, so now I am likening soul fragmentation to memory suppression. Would memory suppression be the cause of fragmentation, or an effect of it?

KristinM: Sometimes, the journey to retrieve fragments is not the first step.

KristinM: Memory suppression is a big red flag about fragmentation

EmPhoenix: I meant cause^

KristinM: In fact, fragments are often seen as frozen points in time

Shamanka: yes

KristinM: Suppression would be a symptom, or at least an indication that I would need to look into that

IMBaked has signed off.

EmPhoenix: okay, now I think I have it straight

KristinM: I don't claim to be an expert on anything, Sentience. I do have quite a bit of experience and training in this though so that is what I offer

*Sentience nods*

KristinM: Frozen time, yes it often appears as a memory loop or the client in an earlier phase of life

KristinM: To give you an example, I worked with a woman that had been sexually abused as a kid by an uncle. When I journeyed for her, I saw her as a 3-yr old, a 12-yr old and a late teen/early 20s

KristinM: It tuned out that these were ages where significant events occurred in the course of this ongoing abuse. Part of her had become stuck or frozen in those ages and they withdrew to protect her from the trauma

sapphirera has entered the room.

KristinM: So in order to help her recover the power she had lost we had to first build a base of strength

KristinM: Hi Sapphrera!

KristinM: And that is where you need to start with the whole retrieval process when there is significant fragmentation. By recovering small bits of power and creating small successes

KristinM: Not everyone needs that though. For some people power lost through a rotten day can be recovered through awareness, personal ritual, reconnecting with Nature

KristinM: Athrawon, is there a way to post a suggested reading list or guided meditations for this group?

RavenFea: Grounding?

Athrawon: If you want to email them to me I can include them in the transcript

sapphirera has signed off.

KristinM: Wonderful! Thanks I'll do that.

Athrawon: unless you would want to copy and paste it

KristinM: Yes grounding is very important and I'll include the anchoring technique for this with the handouts I send Athrawon

KristinM: It is extremely important to be able to ground out the energy and emotion that can result from recovering power and soul retrieval journeys

KristinM: You'd be surprised at how much emotion can come up - and not always immediately after the journey

IMBaked has entered the room.

Shamanka: wb baked

IMBaked: ty

Shamanka: So true Kristin

KristinM: Perhaps Shamanka and Shady Lady have had different experiences, but it seems that most of the people I've worked with either have the release immediately or will experience it within a couple of weeks

KristinM: Do you find it coming up later?

Shamanka: I have found it has done that Kristin

KristinM: It can be a bit like some shamanic journeys. Sometimes the consciousness just needs time to really integrate it all and then the release happens

ShadyLady: I have found that most of mine have come back with time, some come quickly, but some also I have just gotten back

Shamanka: I had a client that experienced it three days later

Athrawon: I have had one that had full integration occur about 3 months after the work, and that was with a support system

Shamanka: and as long a few months later

KristinM: Wow, depending on what that person was working on, three months can be a great time period

Athrawon: It was a doozy...

KristinM: I've had some and know healers that have had some take years
Shamanka: and very painful

EmPhoenix: Well, I think that is comparable to the trauma we experience in real time....i.e.: we have the experience but don't fully appreciate the effect it has on us until much later. The death of a close One would be a good example

nazcatati: so it can be retrieve but is mainly thru inner working...

KristinM: Excellent analofy, EmPhoenix

KristinM: LOL analogy

EmPhoenix: lol

nazcatati: mostly with a healer if you can find one...

Mehulani has entered the room.

KristinM: And death of a loved one (or of oneself) can also cause fragmentation

IMBaked: Hi Meh

KristinM: Yes, inner working, therapeutic creativity, and mundane action are all linked in the process

ShadyLady: welcome Mehulani

KristinM: Hi Mehulani

EmPhoenix: I think I am seeing it....if we aren't ready to deal with the trauma, we fragment until we are ready to deal with it? Is that about right?

nazcatati: only to those that will see it as an end.. right...so if you don't see that way you will only see it that you miss having the person around...

EmPhoenix: MM Mehulani...

KristinM: You got it!

Shamanka: that’s right

RavenFea: Sounds like what my Mother is going through right now

KristinM: Sometimes one journey will bring back just what you need and the rest will spontaneously return because the power base if strong

EmPhoenix: So does the fragment remain a hidden part of ourselves?

KristinM: Once it is returned, it is no longer hidden though sometimes continuing to work with it and allow it to teach about other fragments can help with Shadow work

KristinM: RavenFea, is your mother going through fragmentation or retrieval

RavenFea: not sure, my sister passed away just over a year ago and she can't seem to accept it

RavenFea: sorry fragmentation

KristinM: Oh yes, that often does it.

KristinM: Maybe we'll have to do a death and dying talk later on

Athrawon: Sounds wonderful

RavenFea: sounds good

Shamanka: that’s great

EmPhoenix: Okay, and one more question: when experiencing the hourney, it is a journey into ourselves to recover the fragment? Or is it more comparable to Astral Projection?

KristinM: For deeper fragmentation, it is important to be sure to bring the retrieval process into mundane life

EmPhoenix: I'm sorry....journey^

KristinM: Excellent question!

KristinM: Many healers find fragments hidden in the other worlds, often the lower world.

KristinM: I tend to find them just as often in the heart, the core of the person, and even lodged in the body.

KristinM: Body work, such as Rolfing and Shiatsu, often release body soul fragments that have lodged in the physical body

KristinM: I used to work with a Phoenix Rising yoga instructor that inadvertently triggered a memory through some of the body work involved

nazcatati: how about reiki

IMBaked: Rolfing is a very funny word

Shamanka: yes also you find that in energy working

Athrawon: Rolfing is deep tissue massage

KristinM: Reiki can most definitely do the same thing, as Shamanka says. I find that this tends to be a gentler release in many cases

Shamanka: very deep tissue ouch

EmPhoenix: So the fragments found in other worlds would be a fragmentation of the free soul?

KristinM: Ouch is right!

nazcatati: cool.. I was thinking it was rolling on the ground or something

EmPhoenix: lol

KristinM: LOL

Shamanka: LOL

Kaisar: I was thinking... "Ralphing" which is a kind of release

RavenFea: lol

EmPhoenix: lol...Kaisar

nazcatati: lol... that is one way of releasing

Athrawon: EmPhoenix: So the fragments found in other worlds would be a fragmentation of the free soul?

KristinM: Hugging the ground or using any form of ecopsychology are excellent methods for easing the transition and maintaining the power recovered

KristinM: other world fragments can be either but they do seem to be more often free soul fragments.

nazcatati: hugging the ground is hard.. will have to find a small enough hill to hug..
Athrawon: Can fragmentation of the soul occur with happy or joyous events? Our soul not wanting to leave that moment of bliss?

Shamanka: becoming more in touch with the earth period will help too

KristinM: Now in my experience, body soul fragmentation happens when the physical body is threatened. That is often linked with free soul fragmentation and it really doesn't matter which you perceive is fragmented as long as your healer can access the fragment

nazcatati: like becoming more active in healing the earth thru environment???

Kaisar: I left part of me at six flags... I know it

KristinM: Yes, if the individual clings to that happy moment, it certainly can cause fragmentation

nazcatati: so happy moments can cause fragmentation too...

KristinM: I'd want to look deeper into that type of situation though, to find out why the attachment occurred

Athrawon: Probably as an escape from the "normal" life which is tough enough

EmPhoenix: I would think the attachment would cause more of an obsession rather than a fragmentation

KristinM: But in truth, this is one reason why I seriously caution people that want to take on the psychopomp role (working with/leading the dead)

Kaisar: I think it still has to deal with bad times...

Kaisar: Example, a child who has a rough family life

KristinM: Sometimes you can experience a moment of such perfection that you don't want to come back

Kaisar: that ONE time he finds happiness

KristinM: Exactly! All those situations would lead me to question if there was an underlying fragmentation that lead to the extreme attachment to that happy moment

EmPhoenix: Kaisar: I would say that the rough times caused the fragmentation

nazcatati: oh okay... in other words something that you won't let go... whether it is bad or good... that you just cling to it..

KristinM: That's it!

twolf44 has signed off.

Athrawon: What is the difference between retrieval and extraction?

KristinM: Someone asked me at Merry Meet (A CoG gathering a couple of weeks ago) about the Buddhist practice of releasing attachment and if that could recover power

KristinM: My feeling is that far too many of us are unable to honestly release it because of underlying fragmentation

KristinM: As for retrieval and extraction...

KristinM: they are often linked but they are completely different situations

twolf44 has entered the room.

Shamanka: WB TWolf

KristinM: In extraction, the healer is removing an intrusion, energy that doesn't belong, from the spirit of the client.

KristinM: WB twowolf44

twolf44: ty, didn't realize I was disconnected

nazcatati: like neg energy...will that be extraction..

EmPhoenix: So extraction would be used to remove fragmentation that we have unwittingly stolen for someone else?

Athrawon: Would that not be similar to discovering you are holding someone else's power?

KristinM: Intrusions can be neg energy but more often than not, they are simply energies that lodged in a place they simply don't belong.

nazcatati: this is the part that gets confusing.. how can you hold another's power...I keep thinking of psychic vampirism.. with this one...

EmPhoenix: so an extraction would be similar to a spiritual cleansing and reorganizing

KristinM: In order to really release power you have stolen from someone else, you would need to build your power base and be able to honestly release it.

Athrawon: ok

KristinM: Yes an extraction can be likened to a cleansing in some ways

KristinM: In relationships, we find that the couple often links into each other’s energy fields

ShadyLady: or an extraction is like when you have a tooth extracted....you take something out of yourself....retrieval is where you go look for a part of yourself that you lost somewhere else?

KristinM: We kind of plug into each other's chakras

Shamanka: clearing that energy and starting with a clean slate

KristinM: ShadyLady explains it well

nazcatati: okay... will be holding another person's power.. would it be like a parent want their child to do what the parent didn’t' accomplish... and is expecting the child to accomplish it...

KristinM: Yes, that is very often the case in the parent child relationship

Athrawon: I was taught that sometimes, in order to retrieve a part of a soul you may have cajole or trick another entity into releasing it. Any ideas on that?

nazcatati: okay... I got a better understanding on that part now...

KristinM: Living vicariously through the child indicates fragmentation and is a red flag for possible soul theft

KristinM: It is true that sometimes negotiation and persuasion are necessary to bring back fragments

Shamanka: I have had to do something like that Athrawon

KristinM: But I find that when I take the time to build that base of power, the need to persuade is greatly diminished

Athrawon: Negotiation and persuasion... so much more politically correct... LOL

Shamanka: lol

KristinM: Remember that these are parts that were scared ****less enough to run and hide

KristinM: They are not inclined to trust and may need some convincing

EmPhoenix: I am reminded of the movie "the cell" with Jennifer Lopez

KristinM: Still another reason to build that power base first and help the client connect with spirit allies

MamaDragon has entered the room.

Shamanka: very important

KristinM: LOL I rarely get to see movies that are not PG. I’ll have to rent that one when my son goes to another sleep over

KristinM: Hi MAMAdragon

ShadyLady: welcome MamaD

RavenFea: great movie

Athrawon: How about something less... er... dramatic... Power animal retrieval? Although I know that can be a powerful experience as well.

MamaDragon: Hailsa all this is Lady Arawin from campus

KristinM: Welcome!

EmPhoenix: she ventures into the mind of a mentally distraught man and must gain the trust of, what I thought was his inner child, but now looks more to be a fragment of his soul

EmPhoenix: MM Lady Arawin!

KristinM: Power animal retrieval is the most common form of power retrieval

KristinM: It's often the first thing a healer will do

nazcatati: that sounds like a perfect example... thanks for bringing that movie up..

JustHandy has entered the room.

KristinM: However, I find that power comes back in so many forms often dependent on the personal symbolism and training of the individual

KristinM: Hi JustHandy

nazcatati: that helped a lot to understand the fragmentation now that I think about it..

JustHandy: hello

IMBaked: Hi Handy

EmPhoenix: Yes, I would recommend that movie as an example to help grasp the concept. (not that I think JLo is a good actress)

KristinM: I've stopped leading those fist journeys to be a power animal retrieval and have found in the last few years that allowing it to take the form it will has been more effective for the folks I'm working with

Athrawon: Kristin, when your fingers tire out, just let us know... we could keep you here all night if it was up to us...

KristinM: I'm in no hurry if people still want to talk! Also let me say that I really do answer my email so if anything comes up at a later time, feel free to email me.

Kaisar: cool

ShadyLady: thank you Kristin

KristinM: Well, I answer email when I have email access, there are times like this coming weekend when I'm on the road and have no access

Kaisar: add to transcript maybe?

KristinM: Oh the email! Duh kristin@kristinmadden.com

EmPhoenix: should be easy to remember....lol

ShadyLady: lol

Kaisar: Are you the one that wrote the pagan parenting book?

KristinM: That's me

Athrawon: I will post it on the transcript... anti-spam robot of course

KristinM: It was just re-released

Kaisar: wow, awesome, I have a 2 month old baby girl

nazcatati: usually the easy ones are easy to forget....will have to note it down... and pray I remember where I jotted down..

KristinM: Congratulations!!!

EmPhoenix: I was looking for your Mabon book, but it says it's out of print....

EmPhoenix: Congrat's Kaisar!!!!!

Shamanka: Is she already 2 months Kaisar

Kaisar: Emilie Rose (we never knew about the movie at time of naming)

KristinM: It is out of print. And I didn't feel like revising it so there is a new one out. I just didn't have the time

Kaisar: You have done it now, now my wife is gonna bombard you with email, heh

EmPhoenix: hehe....I love used book stores anyway, Kristen.....I embrace the hunt!

KristinM: I love to think of these kids being born into such supportive and spiritual homes! They're our hope

MamaDragon: ya Kai you spoil my grand daughter

Kaisar: yes mama

Shamanka: They are our future

MamaDragon: very true

KristinM: EmPhoenix, let me know if you can't find it. I think I can get the right back pretty soon and then I can sell it cheap on CD

EmPhoenix: Okay, I will let you know...It's going for about 35.00 on Amazon, just so you know.....but I might be able to find it in one of the stores here

Shamanka: Well everyone I wish I could stay all night but I must get to bed.

Kaisar: If you are doing that, we will buy a copy for sure

EmPhoenix: yes, I will too

nazcatati: you have a good night shamanka

twolf44: Night Sis

KristinM: Ugh! That's why I started selling Shamanic Guide to Death and Dying on CD. It was going for over $80! That is just wrong

Shamanka: I am so happy to meet you Kristin

RavenFea: goodnight shamanka

EmPhoenix: Night Shamanka

Athrawon: Good night Shamanka... thank you for attending

ShadyLady: good night Shamanka....witsatologi nihi...gvgeyuhi

KristinM: Good night!

Kaisar: Night, Shamanka!

KristinM: And email me about the book. I'll have to check on getting the rights back from Llewellyn before I can do that

Shamanka: Witsatologi Nihi! ( Many Blessings to you)

Shamanka: Night

EmPhoenix: I certainly will

KristinM: It was wonderful to meet you all and share this with you!

EmPhoenix: While you're still here.....

Shamanka has left the room.

KristinM: Thanks for inviting me Athrawon

KristinM: I'm still here

ShadyLady: a pleasure having you here Kristin...thank you!

KristinM: Thank you ShadyLady!

Athrawon: Yes, a very huge thank you

RavenFea: Yes, definitely thank you. I hope you will come back again

EmPhoenix: I just want to say that this has been a wonderful lecture and I certainly hope that you would consider doing this again in the future

nazcatati: thanks.. Kristin...

twolf44: There is a web site www.gemm.com that gathers a large number of used book sellers together. You might have luck there.

nazcatati: on the subject of this lecture.. is it found in one of your books.. so I can take a deeper look into it...

KristinM: It has been a pleasure and an honor to be able to speak with folks about such a topic! I'd love to come back, now that I have figured out the chat program - took me a while

EmPhoenix: And a big thanks to Athrawon for organizing this!

JustHandy has left the room.

RavenFea: Yes, than, you Athrawon

ShadyLady: Kudos Ath!

Athrawon: Nope.. I just send out the emails... Kristin is the one that has done all the work

KristinM: There is a chapter on retrieval and one on Shadow work and one of extraction in The Book of Shamanic Healing but I'm working on a book specific to reclaiming power

ShadyLady: We would LOVE to have you back Kristin

Kaisar: Me and my wife are still "geeking out" about this chat tonight. We read about the book looking for things to use for our girl, and here is the author.

EmPhoenix: Kristen, you have much wisdom to offer, and I will be picking up a couple of your books soon

RavenFea: ditto

nazcatati: then.. I will look forward to your book on this subject... but will look into your other ones...

KristinM: Thanks everyone! And many, many blessings on Emilie Rose

Kaisar: thank you

Athrawon: Oh yeah.. congrats Kaiser!

nazcatati: shamanism.. started my path with the first lesson.. and must say.. it had made a great impact.. saving my life, I might say... but never been able to find the site that started it all

MamaDragon: ya bro give my grand daughter hugs and kisses

Kaisar: she loves kisses from grammy dragon

KristinM: Mmm I think that one of the greatest benefits of shamanism for me has been the intense souls searching and self knowledge. It's most definitely made me a better person, wife and mom

nazcatati: for me it was the inner work...

Kaisar: My wife is so afraid of doing something wrong in raising our child

Athrawon: Okay.. my students... The first goal of a witch???

Kaisar: She plows into book after book for an answer

ShadyLady: I agree....it has helped me fight off depression and anxiety very well and help me accomplish a few of my goals too

nazcatati: to put hexes on others...:P

ShadyLady: to listen

Athrawon: LOL... Know Thyself... also a major rule in Hsamanism

ShadyLady: learn

EmPhoenix: know yourself

Athrawon: Shamanism that is

EmPhoenix: dern you beat me ath

RavenFea: lol

KristinM: No way! Trust your intuition and your child

ShadyLady: lol

Athrawon: LOL

KristinM: Shamanism, hmmm to steal souls and dance to drums right?

Athrawon: From what Ms. Madden has taught us here it appears that Shamanism is also a great way of getting to know yourself

EmPhoenix: Hey, dancing to drums is fun!

Athrawon: LOL...
KristinM: Oh yeah! I knew that

MamaDragon: love dancing

nazcatati: cheese... and I thought it was for the ecstatic levels that you can reach ...

ShadyLady: lol

Athrawon: Ecstasy is cool...

KristinM: Ooooo drums, can't get enough of playing them or making them or just listening to them

Athrawon: LOL...

Kaisar: I like bag pipes

RavenFea: I love drumming too.

KristinM: Oh speaking of my boys, I'm being paged. Thanks everyone! I do hope to "see" you again

RavenFea: Thanks again

RavenFea: again*

Athrawon: Good night Kristin.. thank you very much

nazcatati: thanks...for the lecture..

EmPhoenix: Blessings to you Kristen and thanks again

KristinM: May all your journeys be Blessed

MamaDragon: Wassail all

RavenFea: And Yours

ShadyLady: Blessings to you also Kristin

Athrawon: And yours

KristinM has signed off.

Recommended Reading and Resources by Kristin Madden

Shamanic and Energy Healing

Ecopsychology

Death and Dying

Shadow Work

Ritual

Cultural Videos